Michael Mando on Returning as Scorpion

[This story contains major spoilers for Spider-Man: Brand New Day.]

The last time Michael Mando stepped onto a Spider-Man set, the year was 2016, and the movie was Jon Watts’ Homecoming — Tom Holland’s first standalone Spidey tale. Fresh off the second season release of Better Call Saul, Mando found himself standing inside a real-life prison as Mac Gargan, better known as Scorpion, opposite Michael Keaton’s Adrian Toomes/Vulture. Then reality interrupted fiction, as an actual prison riot broke out at their penitentiary location, forcing their dialogue to be rerecorded in postproduction.

Back then, it seemed like Watts was setting up a future story in which Gargan would have a hand in revealing Spider-Man’s secret identity of Peter Parker. After all, he resented the Web-Slinger for not only getting him arrested during a botched arms deal with Toomes, but also disfiguring his face in the process. Plus, credit scenes during that era of the Marvel Cinematic Universe were reliable indicators of what was to come, something that would ultimately change in the volatile post-pandemic marketplace.

Instead, Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019) utilized Mysterio (Jake Gyllenhaal) to out Parker, and then Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021) delivered a multiversal story involving all three live-action Spider-Man actors (Holland, Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield) and the rogues’ gallery from the Sam Raimi and Marc Webb phases of the Sony-owned franchise. 

All the while, Mando was focused on Saul’s six-season prequel-sequel to Breaking Bad and his fan-favorite character of Ignacio “Nacho” Varga. The name “Ignacio” was mentioned in a throwaway line by Saul Goodman (Bob Odenkirk) on a 2009 episode of Bad called “Better Call Saul,” and together with his collaborators, Mando turned that single namecheck into one of the most richly tragic arcs in recent memory. Thus, Mando didn’t have the bandwidth to ponder his status in the world of Spider-Man.

“I don’t lament over things. I don’t try to predict my destiny in any way. I trust that, from a spiritual point of view, I’m part of a bigger universe that knows better than me. So I didn’t really think about it too much at the time,” Mando tells The Hollywood Reporter. “I just trusted that things will come around when they do, if they do.”

In 2025, the call finally came for Mando to reprise the role of Gargan in Destin Daniel Cretton’s Spider-Man: Brand New Day. Four years would pass between No Way Home and Holland’s fourth solo film, so Cretton wanted to depict the passage of time via montage, one where Spider-Man stops an assortment of his comic book villains including Scorpion. 

Mando’s character would also serve a greater purpose in the present-day storyline, as Jean Grey (Sadie Sink) needs muscle to hopefully rescue her imprisoned sister from the DODC (The Department of Damage Control). That led to a detailed fight scene between Holland’s discombobulated Spider-Man and Mando’s Scorpion, only Jean was in possession of the latter’s mind at that moment in time. The mutating Wall-Crawler did not yet know the true nature of Jean’s familial objective.

“Destin showed clips of Sadie to everybody [as a voice and performance reference]. Then I met her, and I instantly knew that this was someone I wanted to see win. She has such a natural, kind quality, and I really resonated with her character’s desire to want to save her sister,” Mando says. “I’ve always imagined that Mac Gargan has also gone through deep tragedy and sees the DODC as corrupt. So [Mac and Jean Grey] have a lot in common, and it was fun finding the nuances in that.”

As for what could lie ahead, Mando admits that he and Cretton discussed the character’s comic-book storyline that sees him become the longest-tenured Venom outside of Eddie Brock. But just like he operated the last decade, Mando is not going to sweat the future.

“The potential growth of [Mac Gargan] is enormous. Brand New Day is level one of this character’s potential, and he has at least two or three levels up from here, one of them being the ultimate form of Venom,” Mando shares. “That’s exciting to think about for a moment, but I’ve got to let it go because it’s in the hands of Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal. They know what they’re doing, and I have to trust that.”

In the meantime, Mando can currently be seen opposite Kevin Hart in the Netflix comedy 72 Hours. He also recently wrapped production on Gundam, the Sydney Sweeney-led adaptation for Netflix and Legendary. Beyond that, Mando has a couple other high-profile comic book projects on the horizon, including the voice of Bane in the animated Batman: Knightfall trilogy. Then he’ll appear in Criminal, Amazon Prime Video’s adaptation of Ed Brubaker’s acclaimed Marvel/Icon and Image Comics series. The ensemble cast includes Adria Arjona, Charlie Hunnam, Emilia Clarke and Richard Jenkins.

Below, during a spoiler conversation with THR, Mando also discusses his experiences on the set of Brand New Day, before going in depth on his portrayal of Bane in Aug. 25’s Part 1 of Batman: Knightfall.

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We haven’t spoken since your final episode of Better Call Saul four years ago. How’s post-Saul life treating you? 

It’s been great, man. I took a bit of a break. I wanted to get away from the business for a while. And now I’ve just been really lucky to be called into all these major franchises: Spider-Man, Gundam for Legendary/Netflix and the Batman: Knightfall trilogy for Warner Bros. I also did a really fun comedy with Kevin Hart called 72 Hours — and  an Amazon Prime limited series adaptation of [Marvel/Icon/Image Comics’] Criminal with Charlie Hunnam, Emilia Clarke, Adria Arjona and just a great overall cast. So I’ve been really busy and really lucky.

I asked Adria about working with you on Criminal, and that was two years ago now. Is a release date in sight yet? 

I’ve seen screeners of it, but I can’t disclose when until Amazon chooses to pull the trigger on the date announcement. I wish I could tell you more. I’m hoping by the end of this year or the beginning of next year, but don’t quote me on that.

In the summer of 2016, you were cast in Spider-Man: Homecoming before you’d go on to shoot Better Call Saul season three that fall. I’ve talked to several Marvel execs over the years about how they’re fans of Saul, and you were the first of many Saul people they’ve hired for various projects. Besides that and having a good audition, do you think being on a Sony TV show also helped you get cast in a Sony movie? 

I love working with Sony, and while I’ve worked with them a lot, I know the TV and movie departments at Sony are pretty different. So I wish I knew what factors into casting, but the reasons why they cast certain actors is beyond my pay grade. It’s one of the challenges of any up-and-coming actor out there, and the message that I would give them is that we don’t really know why certain people are cast or not. We all have to deal with rejection over and over again. So always do your best, and if a door closes to you, just trust that another one will open for you. I would try not to think about the reasons why casting directors or companies do certain things because it’s all just speculation.

The last time we saw Mac Gargan/Scorpion in Homecoming, he took a car to the face and got arrested during an arms deal gone wrong with Michael Keaton’s Adrian Toomes/Vulture. And then the two of you were featured in the post-credit scene together. What were your expectations at that time going forward, if any? 

I approach everything with love, gratitude and acceptance. I don’t try to predict my destiny in any way. I trust that, from a spiritual point of view, I’m part of a bigger universe that knows better than me. So I didn’t really think about it too much at the time. But at this point, Brand New Day is level one of this character’s potential, and he has at least two or three levels up from here, one of them being the ultimate form of Venom. [Writer’s Note: Gargan, in the comics, was the third host of the Venom symbiote and had the second-longest tenure behind Eddie Brock.] So that’s exciting to think about for a moment, but I’ve got to let it go because it’s in the hands of Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal. They know what they’re doing, and I have to trust that.

When you and Keaton shot that post-credit scene, you never thought to yourself that you were being teed up for the next movie?

I was really busy shooting six seasons of Better Call Saul, and I was so happy to be on that show. My focus at the time was to give the best performance as Nacho as I could — and be present and grateful. So I just trusted that things will come around when they do, if they do.

There’s a lot of ADR in that post-credit scene at the prison. Was the version you shot on the day fairly different from what ended up in the movie? 

That scene was actually such an interesting experience. We shot it in a real prison, and a fight broke out in the prison while we were shooting there. So we had to [rerecord] the whole scene in ADR. It was really fun, but also nerve-wracking, to shoot a movie in a place where people were serving a sentence. So it was an interesting experience that put things into perspective for us.

I know you’re quite zen about it all, but after Spider-Man: Far From Home and No Way Home came out, you never assumed that this ship had sailed? 

I don’t lament over things. Kevin Feige, Amy Pascal and the good folks at Marvel know what they’re doing. I trust them to handle the franchise as best as possible. So whenever they need me, I’m there, but I certainly don’t question their decisions.

How was the good news delivered to you that you’d be reprising the role in Brand New Day nearly a decade later?

I received a call that they’d like to set up a creative meeting to see if we could find a way to bring Mac Gargan back. We had two meetings: the first one was with [Pascal’s producing partner] Rachel O’Connor and the second one was with Rachel and Destin Daniel Cretton. We talked about the character, and I immediately fell in love. I was taken by how generous and smart Destin is. He’s a real visionary. I love working with artists who have a vision and a taste that I relate to, and so it was apparent within a few minutes that I wanted to work with Destin.

When did it become solidified?

It was a few months before the first day of shooting. 

Destin called and said, “Hey, we cracked it. What do you think?”

It was a bit more than that, but I don’t know how much I can say about those conversations because we talked about a lot of things that are not in the movie. I’ll just again say that the potential growth of this character is enormous, and this is level one. The [comic] backstory of this character is that he was a really good detective [for J. Jonah Jameson], and then he’s slowly pulled to the dark side before eventually completely losing it and falling off the edge. So all of that potential interested me, as did working with Destin, Tom and the amazing teams at Marvel and Sony.

When you re-encountered Tom Holland and the rest of the cast for the first time on set, did they acknowledge the decade in between? 

They were all just so happy to have me back, and I was so happy to see them again. I was so happy to see how well they’re doing: Tom, Zendaya, Jacob Batalon, as well as Amy and Rachel. I bumped into Kevin yesterday at the [L.A.] premiere, and while they’re people that I like artistically, I genuinely like them as people. So it felt like I was hanging out with old friends.

There’s generally a lot of secrecy surrounding these films, and Jean Grey’s secret role in this film only added to it. Were you privy to the whole script? 

I think I had the whole script. I definitely had more than my pages.

Mac and Spidey have another two fights that result in another two arrests for Mac. But the second one had very interesting dynamics since Mac was possessed by none other than Jean Grey. I could tell you lifted your voice a bit when she speaks through Mac, so how did you approach the idea of playing Jean through Mac?

First of all, shoutout to Sadie Sink. She’s a wonderful actress. Destin showed clips of Sadie to everybody [as a performance reference]. Then I met her, and I instantly knew that this was someone I wanted to see win. She has such a natural, kind quality, and I really resonated with her character’s desire to want to save her sister. That was such a fun scene. It felt larger than life and so cinematic. 

It’s interesting because the character of Jean Grey and the character of Mac Gargan have a lot in common in a way. So it was interesting to find the nuances of what those characters’ inner worlds could be like. I’ve always imagined that Mac Gargan has also gone through deep tragedy and sees the DODC as corrupt. So they have a lot in common, and it was fun finding the nuances in that.

You also got to witness a much darker Spider-Man since Peter was losing himself to this dark passenger inside his mutating body. So it must’ve been unique for you and Tom to both play these very unusual character beats opposite one another.

Absolutely. Scorpion’s objective has been to see Peter Parker lose his hero status. He succeeds in that he, through Jean, finally reveals to the world that anybody pushed to their limit can be the bad guy. So Scorpion loses the fight, but he wins the battle in that scene. As an actor, it was such an interesting psychological tightrope to maneuver. You know you’ve got to convincingly lose the fight, but you have to psychologically win the battle.

How did they capture Mac’s mechanical suit and tail on the day? 

Everything that you see is real except for the CGI tail. The fire is real; the explosions are real; the hits are real; and the movements are real. We had these unbelievable rigs follow my body movement. When I would switch back, these huge giant rigs pulled up these garbage cans and smashed them into cars. Every time we’d move, the whole world around us basically moved like an earthquake. It was just an exhilarating, beautiful rollercoaster ride.

In terms of black market Stark or alien tech, somebody must have picked up where Adrian Toomes left off. Did Destin or the writers ever offer you any backstory as to how Mac acquired this apparatus, post-prison?

We discussed a lot of backstory in our conversations and where he might be coming from. I’m just not sure what I can or can’t share because they haven’t ultimately pulled the trigger one way or another. I still like imagining him as a once very prominent detective who gets disillusioned with the government and DODC’s corruption and handling of alien technology. I don’t want to go too far into it, but we discussed a really nice backstory that would make a beautiful origin story if we ever get to that.

In this post-Saul world, have you kept up with Pluribus? 

Vince Gilligan is brilliant, and I’m a fan of everything Vince does. I actually just finished Pluribus last week, and Vince and I exchanged correspondence. So I can’t wait to have a beer with him and talk about it. He’s a true master, and I’m lucky to call myself a friend and a fan.

As mentioned up top, you also just wrapped Gundam. How did that set treat you? 

I can tell you that Legendary was an absolute pleasure to work with. Sydney [Sweeney] was lovely on and off camera. And Jim Mickle, the director, was just a ray of light. It really felt like a family and a troupe of theater actors. We all stayed at the same hotel in Australia. We hung out by the beach, talked all night, went for ice cream, went on hikes and pet kangaroos. It was just a lovely experience off camera, and I hope we were able to capture that synergy and family spirit on camera.

You and Tom Hardy are not only connected through Venom, but you also just voiced Bane in the upcoming three-part animated movie series, Batman: Knightfall. How did you navigate Bane’s voice since the one he established is most people’s frame of reference? 

I have a lot of respect, admiration and love for Tom Hardy as an actor. But I personally approach every role with a blank slate. I try to go as inward and deeply personal as I can to interpret the character. So I don’t try to emulate anybody else, and I approach it from a singular vision because I think that’s why I’m hired to do the job. 

In this particular case, the crux of the character really came from the fact that he was almost the anti-thesis of Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne is a prisoner of privilege, money and status; Bane is a prisoner of misery and poverty. One had a very loving family that he lost, and one had a very abusive mother that he also lost. So they’re both orphans. 

You know how people say you’ve got something buried in the basement? We wanted to dive deep into that basement and have no filter between that pain and the formidable adversary that he’s become to Batman. The second quality that was really important for us was intelligence. Next to Sherlock Holmes, Batman is arguably the greatest detective in literature. But as we know, Bane outsmarts Batman. So his intelligence was important, and we imagined that he shapes the world with his words. He molds the people in front of him at will with the way that he speaks. 

Finally, we decided to find the vulnerability in his grunts and expressions because he was carrying a lot of pain that we end up revealing in very slight moments into Part 2. So those are the general points of how we came up with the voice.

Lastly, many years from now, what day on Brand New Day will you likely tell your loved ones about first?

I was shooting nights at Pinewood, the iconic studio in London where they shot 23 James Bond movies and Aliens. We were in the middle of filming that second fight scene at night with Spider-Man, and earlier, before I was called to set, I had a nightmare that me, as Scorpion, was standing over me while the whole set was on fire. I was in my Scorpion costume, and I had blood and dirt on me. We’d been shooting that scene over a few nights, so I was very familiar with the set, and my dream recollected the set. So I woke up in the dream to see Scorpion, and then I woke up for real. 

Then they called me to set, and as I was walking, I looked up to see this huge shooting star pass on top of Pinewood. I was like, Wow, this is insane. It feels like I’m in a Disney movie. And when the sun rose following nightshoots, it had been raining, and there was a double rainbow on the way home. So that was one of the most magical days on set, and it felt like the whole universe was conspiring in our favor. It was a moment of pure alignment. It seemed like the universe was winking at us. I just knew it was a moment meant to be savored.

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Spider-Man: Brand New Day is now playing in movie theaters everywhere.